it's cemented and about 3ft high. When you sit upright your head is between the joists, otherwise you are crawling. I have hot water baseboard pipes and all the rest of the normal wires like phone, satellite etc down there.
I get water in all over the foundation, not just one source. It's sloped towards the front of the house but not completely drain there....some standing greywater does remain in certain parts of the C/S. So if it all did go to the front of the house i could get a sump pump and be done with it but alas it's not that easy.
I've seen some home shows where they dig out the foundation of the house and then put barrier against it and backfill but that seems very expensive. My budget for this is about 15K only. and really would like to keep it below 10K because i have to clean up some mold an then insulate. (probably will do that myself)
So who do you call for this? A general contractor, a landscaper? I did have a mold guy come in but he estimated 20K just for mold removal so no way can i afford him on regrading etc.
I think you should start outside the building with proper landscaping, taking the water away from the foundation. This is, of course, only a start. Once the water is gone, you can start under the house to correct things.
20k for mold!!! Most crawl spaces are 1700 - 2500
well i did research over the winter and had a personally referred contractor come out and after 3 visits have decided i will probably let him do this...what do you think of the plan?
1. Near my breezeway (rear left side of house) is where tons of water accumulates, after it gets 3-4 inches deep it will go in the breezeway. He will put a yard drain right at that point where the water collects (making it impossible for it to accumulate) then run along the entire left side, back, and right side of the house, up to the front and have it drain into the front yard. He also will put a few more yard drains in back of the house so the water coming off the hill will have somewhere to go. I'm amazed water will travel that far..probably 130 plus feet but he said a gentle slope is all it needs and it will be fine.
2. The gutters are all draining incorrectly (subterranean drains clogged) so he will caulk up what he can and then about a foot under ground, below the yard drain line, have a 2nd drain system exclusively used for the gutter water. I like this idea a lot. I cant afford new gutters now but this should still help a lot
3. around the entire foundation (estimated 3-4 ft deep) will be a membrane..i insisted on this and after watching the Holmes on homes show believe this will be a 100% waterproof solution. 2 bucks per sq ft installed.
4. the membrane will L out at the bottom to draw water away then there will be PVC pipe with holes at 4 and 8 o clock so if any water is near the house, it will fill from the 'bottom' into the pipe and again, that will go around the entire house and drain in the front of the house
So that's 3 different drain 'systems' and i should be covered, right? I lose all landscaping around the house but only 5 bushes are worth saving anyway.
I cannot see how this very involved process won't work but was wondering what you thought and what i may be overlooking.
He will also let me have use of the dumpster and 2 guys for a day to get rid of my old deck /lumber, a huge thorny bush i needed to get rid of, all that wood under there and all the concrete block i have laying around. There's a lot of work involved with my yard debris i've been collecting. And of course all the construction debris he has. there's an underground oil tank he will have to remove too and i lose all the concrete patio around the back of my entire house..but i cant afford to pour a new sidewalk/patio that would be about 100 linear feet and go anywhere from 4-8ft wide.
total cost.. 12,400 plus the 2 dollars per sq ft installed membrane.
i know it's a lot but i do feel it will work if he does it as he has told me. I just hope i'm not overlooking anything.
what do you think?
A lot of depends on your landscaping.
Here in Florida, building codes require a 6 slope within the first 10 feet away from the home. That' means you'd need 6 of water everywhere else before you get water up the foundation.
Make sure you're gutters aren't dumping water right next to the foundation wall.
Check the wall for cracks, just crawl around on the inside of the wall and look for tell-tell signs of where water is coming in.
Originally Posted by Pendragon
A lot of depends on your landscaping.
Here in Florida, building codes require a 6 slope within the first 10 feet away from the home. That' means you'd need 6 of water everywhere else before you get water up the foundation.
Make sure you're gutters aren't dumping water right next to the foundation wall.
Check the wall for cracks, just crawl around on the inside of the wall and look for tell-tell signs of where water is coming in.
Well they are dumping water right on the foundation, that's part of the problem...clogged under the house etc. But heck with this new membrane etc, even if they ever do clog the water still shouldnt get into the house..i hope?
crawling under there is no fun at all..esp because full of mold. Last time i did it i did see one decent sized crack but with this membrane, no more water should come in there, right? that IS why i'm doing this
Hi lucky, two issues, one is the drains where the ground will freeze. I've seen a lot that freeze solid, break up the pipes and become useless. Second is water will find a way around any barrier. Exceptions for people who are lucky so you have an advantage.
With the foundation insulated and a Vapor Barrier, I would still want a sump pump as a stand-by.
Isn't it a pain that even money has difficulty solving problems like this. You are spending a bundle and still not 100% sure.
Keep us informed and I hope you got it
Bud
Originally Posted by Bud9051
Hi lucky, two issues, one is the drains where the ground will freeze. I've seen a lot that freeze solid, break up the pipes and become useless. Second is water will find a way around any barrier. Exceptions for people who are lucky so you have an advantage.
With the foundation insulated and a Vapor Barrier, I would still want a sump pump as a stand-by.
sump wouldn't be 'useless' but would not be very effective. The floor is sloped toward the front (at least on the one side of the house, i forget about the other) but it's not a good slope. So while it definitely would get me down to about 1/2 inch of water throughout, there are still puddles all over the crawlspace while other areas do dry up nicely.
I understand you are saying water will go into my yard drains and probably freeze since those will be just under the surface (i think but am not sure) but how can you prevent that cracking...and wont they only crack if the pipe is full and freezes? Maybe i should get roof tape and plug it in? lol
But even if those yard drain pipes break, the 4 inch pvc will be down 3-4 feet so any water that gets down that far will just drain out front into the yard and never freeze..i think...i hope. As much of a slope as i have on the front i still cannot picture how this will drain in the front..they said right onto the lawn but to get that low in the yard means it will be 20-30 feet from the house...as i'm up on a 6 ft embankment..that will be quite the view for the neighbors across the street looking directly over lol.
A slow steady trickle seems to be the worst for freezing. When a sump pump hits a drain pipe with a gush of water it drains before it can freeze (sometimes). A perimeter drain that slowly drains to day light will freeze solid in PA at the day light end.
I'm sure the old homes in PA are much like here in ME, with a large berm all the way around the house. About 5 or 6 feet away from the house the lawn drops off a couple of feet to shed the water away from the foundation. Back then they were stone foundations with no hope of stoping water so diverting it away was the only option. It is a design element that we have obviously forgotten over the years as I constantly see new homes being built on flat land with no place to send the runoff.
Do what you can with surface drainage first. Back it up with drain pipes as you propose. And then back that up with a sump pump. Without being there, that is the best I can do, but remember, this is a project you don't want to do AGAIN. argh!
GL
Bud
Originally Posted by Bud9051
A slow steady trickle seems to be the worst for freezing. When a sump pump hits a drain pipe with a gush of water it drains before it can freeze (sometimes). A perimeter drain that slowly drains to day light will freeze solid in PA at the day light end.
I'm sure the old homes in PA are much like here in ME,
ill be having the frozen perimeter drain for sure
no my home isnt like others...the rear yard is about 2-3 ft up from the rear patio...block wall holding it up..and thats leaning lol...so all the water yard comes down against my house..literally can see 2 inches of water on back patio where no other paved surface has any accumulated water. And where my breezeway is thankfully it has to be 3-4 inches before it gets in the breezeway, that's sloped a bit. But thats another saturation corner with 4-5 inch deep there in torrential storms
and in front the flower beds seem to be sloped toward the house and actually someone built a concrete curb on the one side (to keep water near the house? LOL)
edit i just realized he will be digging near my water line..i hope he calls one call!
I am puzzled as to why you need a dry crawl space?
Do you want to use it for storage?
Water that is below the damp proof course cannot do any harm to your home, so why spend a fortune on trying to get rid of it?
Water in the yard is a different situation as one does not want to paddle through water.
Simply digging a trench from the water logged area to a space down hill and filling it with gravel so that the water will run away will cost you very little and can be done over the course of the summer.
Once your home made French drain is in place you can extend it over time across your yard to capture all the water flowing down the hill and have a no, or little cost dry crawl space.
Perry
Originally Posted by Perry525
I am puzzled as to why you need a dry crawl space?
Do you want to use it for storage?
Water that is below the damp proof course cannot do any harm to your home, so why spend a fortune on trying to get rid of it?
Water in the yard is a different situation as one does not want to paddle through water.
Simply digging a trench from the water logged area to a space down hill and filling it with gravel so that the water will run away will cost you very little and can be done over the course of the summer.
Once your home made French drain is in place you can extend it over time across your yard to capture all the water flowing down the hill and have a no, or little cost dry crawl space.
Perry
I need to have a dry crawlspace so that water can stop causing damage to the block foundation. Also I have very high humidity in summer in the house and heck even in winter i have 60 usually. It can be up to 80 in summer. Can you imagine how bad that is for 'things' in the house and how bad that is? One expert told me mold cannot grown below 45% but i know i'll never get the house that low. i'd be happy to have it in the 50s, which is what i can get it at when i run my 700 dollar santa fe dehumidifier. At times i have 6-7 inches of water in the crawlspace after a severe storm. And that isnt good at all. I'm sure there are studies about stagnant water out there also
yes a sump may get a decent part of that water out but the crawl isnt sloped correctly and i still have puddles all over the place that cannot be dried with as sump. You cant just have water sitting down there all the time. I did try putting a screen in the window there and it has helped dry it out quicker.
Also you are mistaken that it cant cause harm to a home. On the interior of cabinets and even up some wooden doors i have mold. I also have it on some clothing in closets where it was stacked and got no airflow. Also my ex was very allergic to mold and had tons of health problems. Not necessary caused by mold but absolutely exacerbated by it. 2 weeks away from the house and she does get better. Some purses she had in a closet were destroyed covered with mold. The mold inspector told me i had one of the worse homes he ever saw..my joists are virtually white in many places, tons of mold down there and no doubt seeping into the house. I dont understand how you can think water in a crawl isn't a problem.
Also you cant just 'dig a trench' where my house is. I know you cant appreciate how landlocked i am without pics but lets just say that 100% of the rear of the house has concrete patio around it. Since the water gets under that, and into the house ,the patio is all cracked and 'coming up' all over the place. I simply cannot dig a trench all along the house and have the water go somewhere. Also, the worst part is near my breezeway, which is a low point and no water could be ever diverted away from there to 'anywhere' that is acceptable. A concrete driveway is close to there so you cant drain it under there and everywhere else is uphill
just trying to tell you that i really have no choice in the matter...also my gutters as they stand now drain into clogged subterranean pipes which are likely even cracked and making my foundation shift even more. So that must be stopped.
I'm confident i'm spending my money where it 'must be ' spent, even though it's expensive. I just cant live here like this anymore. I have a very land locked house that takes a lot of effort to get anything in , they even have to use smaller machines and it's going to be a royal PITA go do anything here. So i know they will be working their butts off, it's not a cake job by any means.
Luckydriver, thanks for the additional information.
I have tried to answer some of the points you have made, I will say that, the idea of making a French drain is not just to hold the rain, which it will do. But to provide a process where the water will flow from where you do not want it to be, to somewhere down hill, even into a sewer where it will stop being a problem.
In a well designed and built home, the water below a damp proof course will never cause a problem.
From what you write, I can see that the home was never designed and built properly and possibly previous owners have done things to create your problems.
Ground water will always rise through a concrete wall to a height of four feet.
The ground (including the concrete close to the walls ) should be cut away and lowered all round the home until there is more than four feet clear.
Or, if that cannot be done, then there needs to be a waterproof plastic membrane inserted between the floor and the concrete foundation/base and the ground outside concrete cut away to one foot below the plastic insert so that rain cannot bounce above the membrane level.
Once the the ground has been cleared and or the plastic membrane inserted the problem will go away.
As I indicated earlier, water in a crawl space does not gas and produce water vapour, water does not release water vapour unless the sun is warming it or the wind is blowing over it, water sitting in a crawl space is cold and just sits and soaks into the ground.
There is no point in trying to lower the internal humidity below 65% at this level living is comfortable and there will be no damage to the contents of your home, the occasional spike to 80% is not a problem. And your dehumidifier will not work so hard and cost so much to run.
If you do not have one, buy a weather centre, with an external sensor. This will enable you to see what the indoor and outdoor humidity is at any time. Some like mine have a recording facility that will enable you to see how the humidity relates to temperature.
At 30 degrees centigrade air holds 30 grams of water per cubic metre, as the temperature drops the cold air cannot hold so much water, so at 20 degrees centigrade a cubic metre of air can only hold 18 grams of water.
From this you can see that as the days temperature rises the air in your home holds more water and as the temperature drops during the night the water drops out, settling on all the things in your home, making them damp and creating the conditions that mould spores need to grow.
Keeping the temperature steady 24 hours a day/night during the winter stops this from happening and stops the mould from growing.
Once the spring comes and the days and nights warm up, there is less chance of mould growing with the drier weather.
Moisture in a crawl space will create mold in the crawl. Which can get into the home by vents, holes for plumbing and electrical. Moisture in the crawl space will cause RH to rise in the home making it uncomfortable in spring summer and fall making your AC work harder and causing the windows to condensate in the winter. Any thing above 60% humidity will cause mold. IN NO WAY SHOULD WATER BE IN THE CRAWL SPACE..
Originally Posted by airman.1994
Moisture in a crawl space will create mold in the crawl. Which can get into the home by vents, holes for plumbing and electrical. Moisture in the crawl space will cause RH to rise in the home making it uncomfortable in spring summer and fall making your AC work harder and causing the windows to condensate in the winter. Any thing above 60% humidity will cause mold. IN NO WAY SHOULD WATER BE IN THE CRAWL SPACE..
well i knew that but i pity whoever lives in his house and has allergies etc If he thinks it cant affect a house ill take him on a tour of my damage
I regret to say that you are wrong.
Condensation occurs only with a change in air temperature.
Warm moist air moving adjacent to a cold surface, the surface cools the adjacent air, with the lowered temperature the water vapour condenses onto the cold surface.
Mould. This situation requires moist air and a nearby cold surface.
In a crawl space the ground underneath will nearly always be the coldest surface and the condensation will naturally form there.
The only times this differs is when the floor above has been partially insulated, and the conducted and radiated heat from the room above (if it is heated) is prevented from reaching the extremities of the joists and keeping them warmer than their environment (warm = no condensation) and they reach the same low temperatures as elsewhere.(Although in this case see later.)
Only then will condensation form on the timber.
Moist air does indeed rise through gaps and holes in the walls and floors, however, this moist air comes from the outside through holes and ventilator spaces.
This is pulled into the home by the suction effect of the passing wind, although more often by the heating system installed in the home - the warmed air rising through holes in the ceilings, walls, ventilators, open doors and windows drawing in the humid air from outside.
From the above, you can see that the reason there is mould on every thing in your home is, that the home is too cold and there is a lack of fresh air, ventilation.
If you open the windows for say five minutes in the morning and again in the evening, a lot of the water vapour in the home will quickly disappear. Although the same thing can be done with your dehumidifier at greater expense.
The outside air is almost always drier than the air inside our homes, although not always, there are times when the humidity is the same or even lower.
There are hundreds of thousands of homes suffering from damp/condensation in twelve different States. Usually the problem of damp and mould is down to the people living in the home.
The big culprit is letting the indoor temperature drop and creating the ideal conditions for mould to form. Then comes not using the extractor fan in the bathroom, not using the extractor fan in the kitchen and utility rooms. Leaving the bathroom, kitchen and utility room doors open, so that the water vapour from these rooms passes into the home.
Then comes ventilation, we all breath, we all sweat. Breathing alone puts 2.4 litres of water vapour into the air in our homes per person per 24 hours. Our breath is totally saturated with water vapour.
Young children, who are more active, produce more water vapour than adults, animals also contribute large amounts of water vapour, then comes live indoor plants, wet clothes etc.
Perry
Originally Posted by Perry525
I regret to say that you are wrong.
nothing in that post indicates it's OK to have 6 inches of water continually in your crawlspace and have no ill affects on people or house ever, which is what i contend (with proof) that is true.
no one will ever be able to convince me under any circumstance that standing inches of water is ever a good thing to have under your house.
The water comes in from somewhere and in this case lets presume it's cracks in the foundation. Water absolutely will hurt concrete more on its way in over the years rushing thru the wall and make things worse for those blocks. I was taught a while ago that water is the most powerful thing on earth and with enough of it, you can do anything (or destroy it)
so again, i cant ever see 'letting water in my house' being a good thing.
Have you considered creating a swale
to redirect water around the structure or into a french drain?
There's a good example of such a project here.
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Home Inspection: A business with illogically high liability, slim profit margins and limited economies of scale. An incredibly diverse, multi-disciplined consulting service, delivered under difficult in-field circumstances, before a hostile audience in an impossibly short time frame, requiring the production of an extraordinarily detailed technical report, almost instantly, without benefit of research facilities or resources. - Alan Carson
Originally Posted by Michael Thomas
Have you considered creating a swale
unfortunately it's impossible in the back. Even if i did the center and right rear parts of the house ( i have a 3ft retaining wall running back there that would be in the way), i have the issue of the left part of the house being somewhat complicated. All the water comes off 3 roofs (home, breezeway/garage) and settles on the left side of the house outside the breezeway. There's concrete walk back there and where all the water goes, it's impossible to run it 'anywhere else' back there. All land etc is running towards the house naturally from the rear and i have a hill all in back of my house...2 inches of water can be on my rear patio and up to 5-6 inches near my breezeway in a bad storm.
Also i have a sidewalk on the left side rear of the house and i think some sort of septic tank or patio under my grass there. See, when i tried to put a post in some places, i run into concrete just a few inches down. I never found out what is down there! So all that buried concrete is no doubt causing problems too. I'm really stuck here!
the front, maybe it could be done if you got rid of a big tree and all my bushes. But that wouldnt really help the broken gutter run off at all. I need a special system just for that. And the right side of the house could be done easily, except for burning bushes as my 'fence line' no obstructions or gutters there and am at least 20ft from neighbors line.
Do some research on the net!
You will discover that there are many places in the world where homes are built above water and in water.
In many places the water is only inches below the ground.
I accept you hold your opinion.
May I just write that we have more than 12 inches of rain on many a day and the first thing you learn to do is design so that it gets away without causing any damage.
Most homes are built on the sides of the mountains and have French drains that collect the water, divert it round their homes and take it into the nearest stream or river.
Good luck.
Originally Posted by Perry525
Do some research on the net!
You will discover that there are many places in the world where homes are built above water and in water.
In many places the water is only inches below the ground.
and how much of that water gets into the structure regularly like mine does and also seeps up into the home? i have nothing but a 1/2 inch piece of plywood between me and a river...i find it hard to believe anywhere in the world would find that acceptable and safe
It would be helpful if you took some pictures of all 4 sides of the structure from a distance, illustrating the problems, posted then to a free hosting service, and linked to them here.
Originally Posted by Michael Thomas
It would be helpful if you took some pictures of all 4 sides of the structure from a distance, illustrating the problems, posted then to a free hosting service, and linked to them here.
found one old pic online...obviously an incomplete picture but it's all have handy now. Thats where a huge amt of water is..right where i'm standing. You can see a white table at the bottom..that's sitting on concrete and thats where all the water flows to. And thats just the surface water
So what you see drains towards me and right where i'm standing will be a yard drain.
you are facing east in the pic, i have a hill south of me sloped towards the house
ok found another pic..the only thing it's good for is to show you the rear wall..the green part on the right center of the screen goes about 80 ft to the right and the house is more towards you/severe right on the pic...will try to get other pics
Perhaps it's just me, I'm still not getting the big picture, can you post a link to the Google Map Satellite overhead of the property?
Originally Posted by Michael Thomas
Perhaps it's just me, I'm still not getting the big picture, can you post a link to the Google Map Satellite overhead of the property?
google is useless...all you would see is a house covered in trees no way to get near the ground like you need.
it's a difficult property to explain.
I think grading your foundation with fill dirt would be a less expensive method and could solve your crawlspace issue. You might still have water in your yard, but the chips are stacked against you there. Installing downspout extensions at least 5 ft away from the exterior foundation will help as well. I would abandon whatever system you have for collecting your gutter water and send it as far away as possible. Membranes are expensive and your property is never the same after you dig it up.
Try fill dirt. Use downspout extensions....start cheap and simple before you go big time. I hope you didn't listen to the guy telling you water was ok in your crawl space. What planet is he on? If you have visqueen in your crawl now....try and remove it for now...or cut as many slits into it as possible to let the water drain through...it will hang around down there a lot longer on top of visqueen.
Good Luck
Originally Posted by dbhazel0221
I think grading your foundation with fill dirt would be a less expensive method and could solve your crawlspace issue. You might still have water in your yard, but the chips are stacked against you there. Installing downspout extensions at least 5 ft away from the exterior foundation will help as well. I would abandon whatever system you have for collecting your gutter water and send it as far away as possible. Membranes are expensive and your property is never the same after you dig it up.
what do you mean the property isnt the same? you mean i wont get water in, all the brush/trees that are now damaging my house will be gone, and the house will look great as well as the gutters being repaired so i dont have water overfilling them
i cant do downspouts 5 ft away from the house. in the back there's nowhere for the water to go. Period. it would just go 5 ft away then come back to the house. All water roads do lead to the house unfortunately. As far as the front and right side i could put long pipes sticking out into the front yard, but that would look really not so nice and id be tripping over them etc when i tried to cut the grass.
Plus i'm not sure if it would be wise in the rear to put fill dirt over cracked up patio for the 100 or so feet that i have around my rear perimeter. I worry the weight may crack the concrete even more and then i have 'uneven' dirt as that sinks further And just like the gutter issue above, any water that does run the 5-6 ft down any new grade will probably just come back onto the house in some other way...the house is cursed that way.
so while membranes may be expensive, i dont see how they cannot work and i dont mind paying for a good job, i just want it to be a good and permanent fix is all.
You might think about installing the roll-up down-spout ends to the bottom of your downspouts in addition to doing grading work with fill dirt along the foundation. These roll downspout extensions are usually attached to an elbow joint at the bottom of the downspout, are made of a vinyl/plastic, when there is a rain they will automatically roll out to about 5-6 ft from the water pressure and the water will drain out then they just roll back up to the end ofthe downspout. The other option would be to install underground extensions to the downspouts using a pvc flex pipe and bury them when you did the grading dirtwork along the foundation. As to the side of the house where the terrain runs down hill into the house, think about redesigning the gutter system to call run-off from that side of the house around the corner and then dumps out where it can run away from the house. Bottom line is really simple, water can not be stopped, only diverted, this is a hard fast rule, as water pressure is one of nature's strongest and most damaging forces. All you have to remember is that water will always take the path of least resistance to get back to sea level. Hope this info helps. Do a google search for roll-up downspout extensions or search on one of the home improvemnt store websites I'm sure you'll be able to find that product. Good luck.
Originally Posted by luckydriver
i dont see how they cannot work .
just know that water always wins....I feel for your situation...I can sense the hopelessness in your writing....I really hope it works for you....
Thanks for listening...
Derek
well i'm tired of doing research and banging my head on the wall thinking about all the pros and cons so i signed and he will start next week. I just cant do things half baked and while it will cost a lot, i think going ' all out' is the only way to go here. I neglected the house for 14 years so spending 12K really isnt that bad a deal for all those years of non repairs.
aint i the optimist?
ill try to do before and after pics then.
update:
today they started digging. The front is first. Well wouldnt you know it i have a strange house. The foundation comes out about a foot or more in some areas (the guy said he's never seen this in his entire life but they must have run into something hard and not wanted to go deeper) so the plan to put a membrane up against the house wont work, now. they will still do the yard drains, separate gutter drains, and the pvc drain on the bottom and i guess will just tar the heck out of what they can while this is dug out. I'm a bit suprised it's not deeper but i didnt measure to see how deep this really is. I now realize i'm not taking into account the dirt line that was there before either. and he said ill pretty much have the same dirtline as before. And to NEVER plant anything that has deep roots or it will kill all the pipes he will be installing. So i think ill let them seed it and just have grass for a while
Had the water guy out to locate the lines so they dont hit them but one call didnt mark the sewer..thankfully when they found it they didnt break it. Already he saw that one downspout that entered into my ground and was supposed to be carried away was rotten and all the roofwater was just going down and being dumped right at my foundation.
something tells me this was not a good thing. And if thats how all the downspouts were, there's a few other issues i'm sure they will find at least it's a known fix and should help tremendously.
I'll post updates as fun things happen.
tons to report but someday will just post pics...but it's 75% done but rain held us up a few days.
but right inside my crawl window, they drilled down with 12 inch bit to try to get the water in there empied out quicker. They said they had dug under the foundation and filled with stone so it would drain better. Well he said was just a thin layer of concrete when he drilled in the crawl then hit dirt right away but i guess the bit wasnt long enough to hit the place where they put stone in since i watched for a minute down there and the speck of dirt in the standing water didnt move at all and was right on top of the holes (8 of them)
so i guess techincally the holes were drilled for nothing but if the water isnt draining out, i guess nothing else can get in either
this pseudo drain was never part of a master plan, just something impulsive the bossman saw he wanted done when he was here a few days ago and i said about the existing water under the house
UPDATE
it's been almost 2 months since this was done, and i checked a month ago and the crawlspace was dried.
we got at least 6 big storms recently and i checked the crawl..there's an inch of water and i'm not happy!!!! called the contractor and said to come take a peek and i have no idea how water could be getting in.
i witnessed every single part of this job and cant imagine where the water is coming in. I dont know what the contractor is going to tell me. But isnt it true that water cant go down, over then up? This was dug to the foundation with the aforementioned 3 tier drainage system and even if i had 4 inches of rain pouring down my back yard onto the rear of the house, i dont see how any of it could make it in the crawl. There's so much drainage here it's not funny.
however assuming the drainage system is perfect, the only thing i can think of is water is going down under the drainage system, under house then up thru the thin later of concrete floor. However that sounds unreasonable and unlikely. also at a minimum, any water that does get near the house should fall straight down to the bottom of my pit of big rocks and flow out the pipes. and the membrane is sloped away from the house so i cant believe it would run out of the ditch then back and then up into the crawl.
im banging my head on the wall here..any ideas?
there was a permeable membrane put on top of all the stones so the dirt didnt clog up the stones. Is there any chance the water is sitting on top of that membrane and not falling down and thus going into the cracks in my foundation?
ANOTHER UPDATE:
took him a year but he came out and dug 2 holes...then came out during a 'hurricane' and saw that the footer drain is too high up off the ground. His guys didnt do it right. the water has to get 6+ inches high off the bottom of the membrane/stones/ditch in order for it to reach the footer drain.he told me the footer drain should be resting pretty much on the bottom of the ditch so the water can enter it immediately. i also have a weird problem where i was draining my spa into my yard drain and the test holes were filling up. that is supposed to be a 'sealed' system so why the spa was filling the holes is a mystery
i still have gutter issues as well but posted those in the gutter forum with pics. Im very upset about all this though, i hope he doesnt need to move my oil tanks again to get in that area as they are full for winter and thats impossible
I am sorry to hear that the people you employed to fix your crawl space did such a poor job.
OK. You cannot do as I recommended last year because of existing buildings, but you can complete the French drain and punch a hole through your crawl space to enable the water to run under your home and out the front.
And/Or you can add concrete to the floor of the crawl space, sloping from back to front to force the water to run away, under the front of your home.
Originally Posted by Perry525
I am sorry to hear that the people you employed to fix your crawl space did such a poor job.
OK. You cannot do as I recommended last year because of existing buildings, but you can complete the French drain and punch a hole through your crawl space to enable the water to run under your home and out the front.
And/Or you can add concrete to the floor of the crawl space, sloping from back to front to force the water to run away, under the front of your home.
you may not care if water is under your house, but i do. I have the mold to prove it.
If you stop and think about it, your belief that mold is caused by standing water, would mean that the whole of your floor would be covered in mold. And anywhere else that is near standing water.
Mold spores are found all over the world.
The air we breath is full of them.
Yet everything in the world is not covered in mold.
Why?
Mold spores need food and water to grow, just like everything else.
And most places there is no food or water to keep the spores alive.
The mold that grows in your crawl space is there because the wood provides the cellulose that it feeds on, it gets the water it needs from the air.
The water vapor in the air, gets there from mainly the seas round the equator the sun beats down on the sea and the sea releases water vapor that rises and heads off round the world, making its way to the North and South Poles. Water vapor is attracted to cold, it always moves from warm to cold.
On its way, it bumps into cold air, that causes rain and snow.
When the water vapor gets to your home, it squeezes into your crawl space through the holes and cracks in your walls, attracted by the cold wood of your floor, and on the wood turns in condensation, some like on a mirror or window you can see, some like on wood, clay, cotton, paper, leather etc; is invisible.
You see condensation on your roof and in the yard, when warm wet air meets the cold ground and condenses as dew or frost, or lands as snow. This same warm wet air enters your crawl space and settles on your wood floor.
The temperature in your crawl space stays about 12f, the water is the same as the ground.
Your wood floor should be warmer than 12f, it should be kept warm by the heat from the room above, but at times it is colder - perhaps you turn the heating off? At those times the water vapor condenses on the wood and provides the water the mold spores require.
If you block the holes that the water vapor enters by and keep the floor warm enough to prevent condensation, perhaps by adding insulation below the floor to retain the heat from the rooms above the problem will go away.
Without water mold dies, just like we do!
Perry sorry did mold is an allergen so it will still need to be removed! Also if you take away the moisture it will go dormant some times for years before dying
Originally Posted by airman.1994
Perry sorry did mold is an allergen so it will still need to be removed! Also if you take away the moisture it will go dormant some times for years before dying
That is all perfectly true. If you look back through the various blogs, you will see that this has already been covered at some length. The mold has been there some time, the various treatments have been covered. There is not much point in washing it off, until the root cause is removed.
Originally Posted by Perry525
Without water mold dies, just like we do!
that statement right there justifies my desire for permanent removal and prevention of water getting into my crawlspace. Remove the water, mold dies. Thus i'm trying to remove the water and prevent more from getting in so it can die Not being very successful though.
and i cant do a thing in the crawl until the water is permanently stopped. That's a universally agreed upon fact at least.
also i recently removed much more carpet in my house in the past year and i'm curious to see if the RH migrates to the living quarters. thankfully i saw no evidence of damage on my hardwood floors in my dining room. but in the year since i 100% cleaned every square inch of mold from my kitchen cabinets, it's already coming back..disheartening since i ran the santa fe pretty frequently. sigh
Tags: tell, best, waterproof, crawlspace, crawl space, Originally Posted, your home, away from, that water, water will, your crawl, water vapour
