We just purchased a 3300 sq foot (5000 w/ basement) home in Illinois and the AC is broken. The house requires a 4 ton unit. The old (20 year) unit is toast...there is no repairing it. We would like to replace it w/ a puron based system. Not sure if we need 13 or 14 seer, but am leaning toward the 14. We have received two quotes. Guy A is a reputable heating and air company that is listed in the phone book. I used him several years ago to repair a heating system and he was good. He told me up-front that Freon is being phased out and if we wanted high efficiency, to go w/ Puron. He sells Bryant systems mostly, but can also get Carrier. Guy B does installations on the side. He works for a service company which is contracted to apartments, so he services ac systems all day long and installs after work. He never recommended a Puron and was pushing a Goodman R22 14 seer system. He said the companies all produce the same product, so why not go w/ the Goodman. I told him we only wanted Puron, so he back-pedaled and came up w/ a different price.
Guy A quoted $3900 for a Bryant Puron 14 seer. Guy B quoted $3000 for a Carrier Puron 14 seer. Hearing that installation is very important as to how a system runs later, we are leaning w/ guy A. Should we ask him to get a Carrier or is a Bryant system fine? Should the price be much different than a Bryant? I hear they are basically the same company but that Carrier has humidity controls, etc... Very confused. Need advice.
I love easy questions! Get the licensed contractor!
Joeblow is not licensed and if he get's hurt on your property he can sue you!
OH and by the way it actually takes a permit to put in an Air Conditioner.
Poor joeblow can't pull permits.
Next joeblow doesn't know or have a clue about Puron/410A refrigerant that's why he doesn't think it's worth it. So really how good is this guy? Sorry but he can't get any type of unit. Probably just goodman because the distributor sells to unlicensed contractors which is a no no.
Here is the facts, Puron/410A is more efficient than R22 by 3 to 6%. It has a larger heat transfer capacity ratio.
410A compressors are built with a heavier case and have less 1st year warranty calls.
410A is Ozone friendly.
All Manufactures will no longer produce new R22 systems come 2010.
Bryant/Carrier Evaporator coils are tested at the manufacture plant with helium to ensure no leaks. helium maybe the smallest molecule in existence Helium molecule is much smaller than Nitrogen.
Bryant/Carrier have designed Puron/410A units for 10 years. Longer than any other manufacture of 410A units. They also redesigned there systems in late 2005 to be smaller and more efficient. So in essence the competition is 8yrs behind in their development.
Bryant is Carrier, it's the same units, there is no difference and I have no clue why this Bryant guy doesn't know this?
Now my question, is this a complete system change out with Air Handler/Furnace? If it's a gas furnace you better change that out too!
20 years with a heat exchanger is max!
Also if it is a furnace, and the coil is a N coil make sure your Bryantman installs it correctly or the coil will have air flow problems causing the system not to be as efficient.
Relieve your self of confusion, Go with the Bryant guy.
The 13 SEER 123A straight cool condenser is nice
So is the 13 SEER 223A heatpump
More research is necessary. Goodman offers a 410A system. In my experience w/ these units, the Goodman performs just as well if all you want is to heat and cool your home. Carrier and Bryant do offer bells whistles to separate themselves from the rest. Make sure you have a manual J done to determine your exact heating and cooling need. An air conditioning system consists of a compressor, an evaporator(furnace), a metering device and a condensing coil (unit). The rest are parts or controls that offer some benefit to the customer but also cost more to replace if trouble arises.(and when does it not). Research and get what's right for you.
You might also want to consider going up to 15 SEER since there is a tax credit involved once you get to 15 SEER.
I too suggest going with the licensed contractor. Not that the guy doing side work won't do you a good job but will he be around if you have trouble?
As previously said, do or have done a Manual J. The suggestion of replacing the furnace at the same time is good as well if the furnace is original. New furnaces can be had in two stage with variable speed blowers which in addition to reducing operating costs, also increase comfort.
Im with Grady . If you will stay in this home for 10 years and you do run the AC a lot. Then for sure you want a unit with a seer of 15 or more It will pay you back in the long run and the tax credit. Also for sure get a V/S blower on the unit. We try and stay with the R22 units it will be made till 2030 Its cost a lot less if you do have a leak than the R410a. If you do go with the new AC and furnace you can get a 10 year warranty on the whole thing Go with the the licensed contractor. Most times it pays to get 3 bids for a job .
My house is 3200 square feet. I have had a 3-ton Bryant (identical to Carrier at lower price) unit for nearly twenty years and just replaced that today with an Amana 3-ton 14 SEER charged with R22 for $2150 Canadian, after taxes and the government rebate ($400 in Ontario starting with SEER 14 and a programmable thermostat). Amana has the best warranties I could find.
4-ton seems excessive to me. Most of my neighbors with similar size houses have either 3-ton or 2.5-ton (the old standard here). The smaller ones run a bit more cycles but move the air in the house more and remove the humidity better. One of my next door neighbors has had a 2.5-ton going for about twenty years to cool a 3400 square foot house - and he has a cheap noisy York system! I got four quotes ranging from $2,500 for the Amana (pre-tax and rebate) to about $4,000 for a Trane with aluminum coils! So get more quotes if you want a better deal. These systems should cost somewhat less in the US (where they're made) than in Canada!
I chose R22 for reasons already spelled out by Ed Imeduc.
I have a brand bew Carrier 3 ton HP and my square footage is only 1470sqft. This was sized with a manual J.
4 ton for over 3000+sqft sounds right and definetly not overkill.
Most homes are built with undersized units anyways.
Originally Posted by HotinOKC
I have a brand bew Carrier 3 ton HP and my square footage is only 1470sqft. This was sized with a manual J.
4 ton for over 3000+sqft sounds right and definetly not overkill.
Most homes are built with undersized units anyways.
They tried to sell me a 2.5 ton for my first unit. An HVAC mechanical engineer I worked with told me that 3-ton was the correct size for my house then. I understand that the calculation method has changed somewhat since then and one of the sales people I invited for a quote recently suggested I go with a 3.5-ton now. Sounded to me like a way to up-sell me so I stayed with what worked fairly well before. When the temperature is below 85 degrees I find that the A/C system actually runs quite infrequently and doesn't dehumidify the house that well. That's been my experience.
Tags: carrier, bryant, Bryant Carrier, built with, Carrier Bryant, licensed contractor, Puron 410A, 1470sqft This, 1470sqft This sized, 1470sqft This sized with, 1470sqft This sized with manual, 3000 sqft
